Summary

Gabriel Flores  0:00  

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the shades of entrepreneurship. This is your host, Mr. Gabriel Flores. Today I have the founder of orbit Patrick wood, Patrick, how are we doing?

Patrick Wood  0:13  

Hey, Gabriel, thanks so much for having me on the show. Very excited to be here, doing pretty great and excited to have this conversation.

Gabriel Flores  0:19  

Yes. But now before we hear about orbit, let's hear about Patrick, who is Patrick woods, give the audience a little bit of background.

Patrick Wood  0:27  

You know, as a founder, it's hard to separate myself from the company. So it's hard to describe one without the other I would say but yeah, I'm Patrick. I'm the co founder and CEO of orbit. You know, my career blends. A few different chapters sort of grew up in digital marketing work in an ad agency for a while I transitioned from kind of the digital analytics side of the agency to doing brand strategy. at that agency, I created a business unit to focus on startups. So essentially providing services for equity, like naming services, brand, design, things like that for early stage companies. But instead of getting paid cash, we got paid in terms of equity. That introduced me to the whole wonderful world of startups. One of my clients was a company called keen IO Keen was an analytics API, kind of an early stage company Sequoia backs, just classic, developer driven bottom up community led kind of a company and Keane was a client, and they recruited me to be their director of customer success, because they had lots of users, lots of customers, and no one looking after them. And that was a big part of my job at the agency. So I moved from Memphis, Tennessee, where I where I grew up, moved to San Francisco to join team and really joined the startup, the startup, Joy Ride, if you will. So it was a keen for a while learned a lot about community as a driver of value for both the business and the community members. Keen had probably around 50,000 developers on the platform there, tons of people building cool stuff and talking to each other about what they were building. After Kena went to a company called Figure eight and machine learning space. And then around 2018, I got the band back together with my now co founder, Josh, Josh was the VP of Engineering at Kenai, EO. And we started doing some consulting and kind of the developer relations, developer community space, just really helping companies accelerate their, their, their programming there and be more thoughtful and strategic. And really, that sort of led to the modern era of orbit, because it's a couple of things happened. During that time. One, we spent time with, you know, dozens of companies, hundreds of leaders in the space, and we realized everyone was, you know, all of these companies were investing in community programs, and didn't know how to measure the sort of efficacy of those programs, because it seems very nebulous, and there's little sound a bit philosophical, but the the sort of soul commercial metaphor for measuring things in business, since 1888, essentially, has been the sales and marketing funnel, or maybe 8098. But But suffice it to say that the funnel is a metaphor is is great for optimizing linear, linear process, like a, like a product onboarding or enterprise sale. But community growth community is not linear, it's not binary. So we realized that it's really hard to measure community with a funnel. So we took a step back, and we created a framework called the orbit model, which said this is this is the way you can measure organically the way communities expand and grow and fade over time. And we sort of watched that as a blog post, it's kind of quote unquote, thought leadership for the consulting practice. But it really hit a nerve with with our audience. And so people started to say, cool blog posts, how, how do we do it? How do we take these, this theory and turn it into practice? And so what we did was we fleshed out the concepts, we put some of the underlying math into some air table templates, we had a small Slack community of our own. And then with that, we sort of raised our first pre seed capital in late 2019, before we had a product, so we were pre product, we basically just said that look, the way people buy software and by most things, has shifted from a top down sales motion to a bottom up adoption centered motion. And the tooling for for managing that process hasn't really hasn't really been born yet. Like all the existing tools in the enterprise are very premised on a buyer or a seller and sort of sort of a transaction. And so our premise was that we need to reimagine the go to market from the bottoms up from the ground up and the context of an adoption center go to market, but we've got to build it on top of better data models and better mental models. And so that's sort of the the story of how we went from kind of like early ideas into building, launching Orbitz. So yeah, we launched it in 2019. Or we started in 2019. We launched publicly about a year ago, May of May of last year. Today we have many 1000s of customers. So pretty great ones like Stripe, Octo Patreon euro for sell, and and a number of others that are sort of very community led community driven companies, primarily in the software space, as well as a lot of growth in web three, gaming and E commerce as well. So Yeah, basically the end of the day we help our companies or customers really understand who is their community and what to do about it. So, yeah, so I've been thinking about this stuff for a while, as you can tell, in addition to the stuff, we did a keen eye produced events in the past, you know, hosted, you know, monthly meetups and dinners and things like that. So that they for a long time about how communities impact people, and then but also the sort of, like bigger businesses they might be associated with.

Gabriel Flores  5:25  

So So just to kind of clarify orbit in itself is kind of a digital platform to create communities kind of correct. Is that does that summarize it? Or please, maybe, is that accurate? Yeah.

Patrick Wood  5:38  

Yeah, sure, sure. So basically, all of our customers share a couple of things in common. One is that their community is, is important. It happens online. And it happens across a bunch of different channels, right, typical orbit customer will, they'll have activity happening on GitHub, plus a Discord server, plus Twitter, plus meet up plus product, plus Reddit, and you just sort of like the list goes on about where, where the conversations where these interactions are happening. And so on one hand of the community is super important. On the other hand, it's distributed across dozens of unending number of places. And so sort of at the bottom of the hierarchy of needs, if you will, what we do is we make it really easy for our customers to connect all those data sources, and get a single view of what's going on across this channel. So at the individual level, you can see, okay, a month ago, this person followed us on Twitter, and in the next day, they subscribe to our newsletter. And then two days later, they came to our Discord forum, asked a bunch of questions about the product, and then the next day, downloaded a free trial and started using the product. And then a month later, you know, referred a friend. And so really, this idea of taking all these disparate data points that are spread across these different channels and across the products and unifying it into a single view. And so at the individual level, you see, or you see the full journey. What it means is that as a second order effect, you have that individual data that then rolls up into company wide data, so we can say, Hey, did you know that last week, there were eight people from Acme active in your in your orbit, you know, to follow you on Twitter and other came to the meet up another one requested a copy of the PDF? Without a tour like orbit, you probably wouldn't know because it happens across a bunch of platforms. So it makes it really helpful to understand which organizations are engaging in a bunch of reporting that comes down to that, and then some workflow automations, the messages and things like that.

Gabriel Flores  7:24  

Now, you mentioned one of my favorite things, you mentioned data. I love getting into data, I love kind of scrubbing data. Where do you you mentioned getting your data sets? Where do you get these data sets with this information? And what kind of information does it kind of have just to give the listeners a general idea of what you're what you're kind of looking at and analyzing?

Patrick Wood  7:44  

Yeah, so the two the two main concepts in an orbit, workspace. So if you were going to use orbit today, you would go to orbit that love, you would create an account, create a workspace. And inside a workspace, we keep up with the community members themselves. So this is an individual's versus Patrick woods, a member has various identity. So I'm Patrick J was on Twitter, Patrick J was on GitHub. And then members do activities. And this is kind of like the one of the fundamental differences between orbit and like a traditional sales CRMs. Because we found that modern businesses want to know what people are doing across channels. So an activity is any verb that someone does. So it can be followed on Twitter, that could be joined the forum, and you can basically imagine anything. And so how do we get the data? So there's a couple of ways. The most common way is using one of our 20 or so integrations that we built. So the Twitter integration, for example, is under the hood. It's a Twitter app. So you you click connect in Norbit workspace, it goes to Twitter, you authorize the app into your Twitter account. And then we go and pull in, you know, recent mentions recent followers, things like that. And going forward. Anytime someone follows you. Anytime someone retweets. You mentioned, you mentioned, the specific keyword that you want to keep track of, that creates an activity in your workspace. And so the member is, you know, Patrick J would the activity is following Gabriel on Twitter. And so every integration does something similar. So for the discord, Discord integrations, a discord bot that sits on your server, when people join when people ask questions in specific channels when they reply to threads. Those are all activities on GitHub, there's a number. And so basically, you think about a platform like like on meetup that would be RSVP for an event. And so the basically the initial phase of an orbit, you know, experience is that connecting these data sources using our integration. So typical implementation process takes 10 minutes to be logger. Aside from the integrations, we also have a Zapier app and make app. So we, you know, really lean into the low code, no code sort of part of the world. And then underneath all that we have, we have an API and web hooks so our bigger customers build super complex workflows.

Gabriel Flores  9:54  

And the beauty of it is the customer see absolutely none of this because it's kind of all operating in the background. Correct.

Patrick Wood  10:00  

Yeah, it's similar to any other kind of like, marketing sales tool. It's, it's behind the scenes. So it doesn't require anything from the end user to do have to sign up or anything like that it just happens automatically, all based on basically the public and interactions that are happening.

Gabriel Flores  10:16  

Now, you mentioned you recently kind of just started the business. Let's talk about, you know, how you started the business and the financing part. Is it a grassroot effort? Did you go venture capital? How did you start to finance this company?

Patrick Wood  10:28  

Yeah, yeah, we're venture backed. So we raised a few to four rounds. The first one, especially wizard was to precede. So it was, you know, Stryver million dollars, basically. And that phase was basically, you know, can we go and prove out the demand for a tool like this, because the sort of vision for that at the time, there was nothing really like in the market. And so the first question is, is there? Is there a market here? What should the product look like, and then can Patrick and Roscoe, build it, and convince people to to use the earlier version, so we started in late 2019. Of course, 2020 was the sort of beginning of the pandemic instead of the first half of 2020 was, you know, very chaotic, like it was for everyone. But one, one thing that we we experienced was that because of COVID, because of the shutdowns, basically, every company's event marketing budget and events, programs sort of went away. And so there's no more conferences, there's no more meetups. And so every company moved everything online. And all of a sudden, the world is wondering, how do we track and measure this engagement across all these different channels, we all suddenly have to do community online, we don't know how to do that. And so that was very helpful for our business, because it just drove a ton of demand. We've, we've done very little, you know, paid advertising promotion, it's pretty much all been organic, driven, based on sort of those tailwinds from the market. So I guess late 2020, we raised the seed round from Andreessen Horowitz. And then early 2021, did a series a from Cotu that a16z participated in, yep. And then went went live middle of last year. So we've been venture backed the whole way. Now, one

Gabriel Flores  12:03  

of the things you mentioned was pre seed for that for the listeners at home, can you that may not be familiar with venture capital and going through that process, what does precede mean?

Patrick Wood  12:12  

Sure. So the historically, each sort of round of capital that a company would raise will have a couple of factors associated with it, basically, how much of your company is raising the valuation of the company, and then sort of the maturity milestones for every phase, if you will? So, you know, today, these as you can imagine, we're sort of fluid over time, every decade sort of there's a bit of a reset precede has historically been, you know, let's let's raise somewhere between 250 and 750, you know, a million kind of on the high end, to fund a team to go to like, the basic research around the problem set. And they typically do risk a few things, the rest of the the executions, they're like, kind of founders to build it. Can they can they? Can they find something that looks like it's going to work? You know, of course, at the very early stages, no one's expecting Arr, or recurring revenue at that point. But it's basically the, the investors and the founders basically saying, Yeah, I think there's something here, we really need to go focus on it needs a capitalist go do that. Let's figure it out. So the next phase, you know, typically, it'd be done in pre season, some companies don't do a pre seed, sometimes you just raise a seed round, but the seed round is typically it'd be, it's been very different, honestly, from 2021 to 2022, in terms of like the round sizes. So over the past couple years, a seed round might be two to six, we saw some big ones last year, like eight to 10, which is pretty out of whack with historical ranges. But at the seed, it's like, okay, we need to start to build a team around this. Because there's, there's some demand here, there's some pull in the market, we've got, we've got sort of, you probably have like a beta version of the software, you know, maybe you have some design partners you're working with, you've got a few days and maybe 100 people using it getting value. And so you could have proven out the minimum viable product, there's, you can build it, there's people that want it, maybe you've got some revenue, often not. But really now that you've de risk the early parts. And so now you need to de risk the can you build a team? Can you can you start to drive revenue? Can you start to test them go to market, can you build a community, and then by the time you get into the Series A, the series A is kind of like the bigger round, it can be 10 to 15 to 20 or more, you know, by then it's like, okay, you need to be getting to revenue approaching a million dollars in error. And then basically every stage has kind of like, investor expectations from it kind of like what you need to do with the money and kind of milestones that you are signing up for, essentially for the next the next round of funding. So yeah, they just call it like series series seed series. ABC is kind of just a shorthand that the investor people used to do mark what what round for added what stages become at the end.

Gabriel Flores  14:53  

What would you say are some of the difficulties kind of like maybe some aha moments go into the venture round that you're like, why Oh, I didn't expect that or maybe some difficulties that you or team ran into trying to raise funds.

Patrick Wood  15:07  

Yeah, well, we on one hand, we had a lot of, we were very lucky to be raising capital in the, in the prior market. I mean, it was just the economy was flush with cash. And so I would say some of the lessons we've learned is that there's there's a degree of interpretation required around investor feedback. There's an interesting thing that I've observed where an investor is, they, they're the business of essentially gathering as much information as they can, you know, so they'll ask you a lot of questions about your market, your market size, your customers key problems, who else you're seeing in the market, and they're in their information, gathering machines. And so that is useful. There's almost always upside for an investor and accountant to Congress. In addition, because they are collecting data, they're putting out data in spreadsheets, the firm is crunching that data to figure out which companies to invest in which markets to go into. So there's, there's not always a there's always semester value into a conversation. So we're always asking questions getting information. The other thing is that they're always trying to keep the option open to to actually do the investment. And so it's almost it's sort of like dating in a weird way, where the first conversations are like, it feels really good. Everything's going great. You know, they're saying, This is awesome, we're really excited. And then they're very excited in school, they're not until they break up, like, all of a sudden, they send you an email that says, Well, you know, the markets not big enough, you're not far enough along whatever, whatever, there's always reasons they give you that they never mentioned before, they, until this point until the break up, it's just like, flattering, because they want to keep the options open as long as possible to the essence to the last minute. And so I experienced early on a lot of whiplash from that, because you know, you build a relationship, you invest time, you're like, oh, this person really gets the business, which is going to be a great partner, and then all of a sudden, they have all these projections, they really hadn't mentioned until too late. And so I found that it's not very, it's not usually a conversation that's very transparent on your side, you know, like if VCs have questions maybe about, you know, market sizing or burn rate or things like that. They also don't ask them because they, they don't want to, like turn you off as a founder. Because often, you know, you're talking as a founder to multiple investors. And so, you know, there's, there's a fear from VCs I've picked up on that, if there are two directions to approval feedback, then maybe, you know, they hurt your feelings, and you're taking money from someone else. And it's like this really strange dynamic. But as a founder, you know, you're like, you really just want the information. And in fact, you really come to value people that will tell you the truth. Good point. Good point. It's all we have, we have to make decisions based on the data we have. And yeah, so that's some of those challenges are pretty, pretty interesting. And trying to read the tea leaves of what people are really saying behind the scenes are actually saying,

Gabriel Flores  17:52  

You got to always read between the lines kind of thing. Now, what would you say was like, possibly like the easier part about it? Or was there anything easy about going through that rounds go into those seed rounds?

Patrick Wood  18:02  

Um, you know, we've been very lucky, I would say, to have an interesting product at the right time, the markets been good. We live in San Francisco rather than Francisco, my co founder, Josh, he lives in Paris, but we both been in startup world for a long time. So we've been fortunate enough to have just a really great network of people that, you know, both angel investors as well, both angel investors, as well as institutional venture capitalists, so yeah, I mean, I think we're pretty privileged in that, in that regard. So it's not it's not that easy, but I think it's probably been a lot easier than, than it's been for a lot of people simply because we're one degree of separation away from a lot of people. So but that's just, there's not really any advice on that one, I guess, other than maybe, geographical proximity, proximity to, to capital is still, I think, really important.

Gabriel Flores  18:54  

You know, actually, you brought up one point that I think that's kind of important that, you know, indirectly in that is networking. Right, you you're talking about your network, right of your individuals that you know, and your partner knows, how important has your network been to building? You know, these companies? You mentioned Orbitz, actually not your first one, how important has your network been to kind of grow yourself as an entrepreneur?

Patrick Wood  19:18  

Oh, yeah, it's been, maybe not everything. But boy, it's been a lot. I mean, it's, we can credit our network with early capital. So our first our first angel investor, the first person who wrote any you committed any dollar store, but was a guy named James stamp Lynch. James is the founder of Firebase, Firebase had a pretty massive exit to Google. James was a friend of my co founder. He's a friend of mine now, but he was a longtime friend of Josh, my co founder, they have a Burning Man camp together for the past many, many years. And so, you know, it's like, we're getting started. It's like a couple of calls in James's in for his for his check size. And so then we can go to other people and say, Look, James is and he's a big deal, like you shouldn't be in and it's sort of that first check. unlocked everything. And so it was a clip from the network. And, you know, not only was it just in the case of James and a lot of early investors, it's not just just any money, it's money from people that also have networks. Yeah. So it's multiplicative. And so, yeah, we've we've benefited a lot from early investment in those relationships and trying to keep those warm and just meeting people. And, you know, it's, it's kind of like the classic serendipity thing you just met, you never know, like, you go to a meet up, suddenly, you run into someone, five years later, you know, they're your VC, you know, it's just, it's so a place like San Francisco, still pretty good. Because there's so much density around around that, of course, online. There's plenty of things that are happening online, too. And, increasingly, capital is distributed. But regardless of whether it's in person or not, I mean, investing in the network. It's like, there's there's no downside. Yeah,

Gabriel Flores  20:47  

certainly, you know, I think that's one thing that's been, excuse me, I think that's one thing that has been common throughout this podcast, is just highlighting networking and the importance of networking. And it's not like what you know, too, you know, a lot of the times because those individuals and I say this, often when you're climbing up this, you know, so to speak, corporate ladder, and you're reaching down helping other people's up, eventually, we might slip and fall down that corporate ladder, but it's those individuals that have been, you know, we've been helping up along the way, they're going to kind of reach out to prevent you from falling even further kind of thing. And so it's interesting how the networking is such a kind of a big thing. In fact, if, if James ever needs somebody to join him at Burning Man, please do let me know I'm always available. Now, now, Patrick, what motivates you? I mean, you're you're grinding, you're doing quite a bit, what motivates you to keep going?

Patrick Wood  21:39  

I think it's a few things. It's the chance for impact, I think is is maybe the the highest level bucket. And I think there's probably a couple of couple parts of that. I feel pretty fortunate to be able to do this, to have a startup to raise money from amazing investors to have really incredible customers, you know. And so it's pretty motivating to have some of the some of the most interesting companies using our tools and saying, Yeah, this is, this is helpful, I'm improving outcomes for the business, I'm helping the community grow, I've become a rock star. So I'm not sure what's like under that. Maybe there's probably some deeper for the motivation, or maybe, but I think I think the just the chance to, to go do that. I don't know, like building a startup has been a thing I've wanted to do for a long time. And so like, I feel very motivated by the chance to build build a thing that has big impact, both in terms of creating a category, building a business, employing a lot of really amazing people. I think I think the team aspect of it is pretty motivating. For me, our team is spread across the US, the UK, France, and a couple of West African companies countries begin, namely, and go to one, or excuse me, Nigeria. And it's, it's an incredible group of people that are all thoughtful kind, superintelligent. And so, you know, to be able to have a team of people that I learned from, I'm inspired by is, is pretty awesome. And, of course, to have the chance to mold and shape that culture, versus being like part of something else, you know, I mean, it's, I don't know, it's nice to be the be in charge, when it comes to that sort of stuff and kind of create the kind of place that that I want to work and Josh wants to work. So that's a pretty huge as well. And what we're seeing is that if a company has, they have a thriving community, it basically makes every other part of the business easier, it makes sales easier, makes marketing easier. And for the community members, it means they're getting answers faster, and they're meeting people and they're probably getting jobs. And so there's many like second and third order benefits to the outcome of communities getting bigger and better and healthier. So there's like a, like a long term impact. I think that sounds kind of cheesy, but like on society, if we could help companies get better at this and scale this up, then I think it actually makes people's lives better. Because all the reasons I just described,

Gabriel Flores  23:58  

you know, and I think to where I see orbit, possibly leveraging, you know, the opportunity to kind of build into the corporate world is really focusing on the Employee Resource Groups. Because I think with larger institutions, there's a lot of employers restrooms I know I'm part of one here at Oregon Health and Science University. I'm also kind of starting this kind of consolidation of Employee Resource Employee Resource Group throughout the state of Oregon that we're trying to kind of create this cohesion between us all kind of determine what are we doing, and this is exactly where I see Orbot kind of fitting in right? Love to hear about what our ERG members, you know, Latina ERG members are doing for our south, you know, it kind of still engaging in that community. Now, as a business owner, first why startups Why'd you get in the startup world?

Patrick Wood  24:49  

I don't know. After really introspect on that, I would probably say the the speed that things happen, as always put up Record, being able to pick up, being able to convict swing really quickly and know something's gonna work or not has has been attractive. I think, you know, building something from scratch certainly isn't limited to the role of a tech startup. But, you know, again, getting back to the impact thing, it seemed to me like the most efficient and effective way to build something quickly to have an impact, you know, versus maybe bootstrapping or doing something else. So, yeah, I think the culture around around the startup Spaces has always been attractive in the sense that it's a very fast moving, people are smart. There's lots of open learning. Open source software is kind of like the sort of first version of this but more and more people are publishing their learnings like learning in the open sharing what worked and what didn't doing big retrospectives on this company didn't work out. Here's why. And, you know, there's big a big bias towards, towards learning. And that's, that's always been really attractive to me, too. So I think those are, those are some of the things and I added, just being surrounded by really smart people is always fun, like, I'm always blown away by the types of people I get to, to meet and work with, and an even employee. And so it's kind of like the best place for, for somebody who wants to learn and just be surrounded by really elite folks. It's kind of the best of the best place to do that. Am I at least in my experience?

Gabriel Flores  26:20  

Now, what advice would you have for the listeners at home?

Patrick Wood  26:26  

Oh, in general, or with business or any with

Gabriel Flores  26:30  

listening, listening from an entrepreneurs perspective, what what advice would you have for an entrepreneur that maybe is thinking of getting into the startup world as well?

Patrick Wood  26:39  

I think I think doing the work to get clarity on, you know, your, your individual motivation. And like to your last question, I think that's, that's been pretty key. And this is actually one of the questions going back to James Campbell, who I mentioned earlier, in one of his first questions to us was like, Why, like, why do you want to do that? He was he was a founder, he had been through the wringer. He's like, Are you sure? You know, like, like, what? Do you think it's gonna be easy? Do you? Are you reading TechCrunch? I think it's all just like raising big rounds of money and doing. Like, it's actually actually really hard. So, you know, really doing a gut check on, like, what is it I want to do? And why? And Is that Is that why you're going to keep you going? through hard times, because, you know, we've, we've seen many ups and downs before, but it's about three years old, coming up on three years, I guess. And, you know, we've been through COVID, we've been through a water recession, you know, the market has gotten hot, you know, competition shows up, you know, like, as just like, many ups and downs, people leave the company, you know, like, for, like, for good reasons, or bad reasons, whatever, you have to let go. And just a lot of stuff. And as a founder, you It turns out that the thing you want to do, and I get to kind of like just rambling to here, but I would say that, you know, what I found is that starting the idea of starting a company, and building a product that's really cool, is a great starting point. But as a CEO, you, you do a lot of stuff that's not building a cool product, like you work on that sound, but you also do a lot of a lot of chores. It's funny, what the Elon Musk said, and, you know, we can have a lot of things about him, I guess. But basically, one of the things he said was like, being a CEO, it was just about doing your chores, and if you don't do them, it's gonna be bad. So you just gotta like, taxes, accounting, HR stuff, there's a lot of that. So I guess it comes back to like, understanding why you want to do the thing. And then gut checking, the sort of reality of hey, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a slog, and maybe talking to some people that have been there done that. I mean, I think about my own network, the having connectivity with other founders, who are both at my stage like kind of like Series A, but also people who are like, further beyond, it's really excellent to have those people share perspective, because, you know, investors are great, they'll try to give you advice and stuff like that, but really only a founder who's kind of been there and done that, or is currently in those trenches is working to bring that same perspective. And so, you know, it's useful to just have a conversation with a few people that have done it before. And, you know, if you've never talked to anybody have done a start up, talk to some people who have done one and make sure it's for you, because it's not easy.

Gabriel Flores  29:19  

Man, I keep telling you, folks network, get out there and talk to people. Right, get out there and listen to their stories. It's it's quite impressive how much you can learn from other people. I mean, you know, we're kind of at the best time in our life where we actually do have every possible knowledge, you know, at our fingertips. In fact, it's probably in our phone on our pockets right now. Right? But also people in books and just having that opportunity now where, where can the listeners find or they're interested in the product and interested in kind of finding out more where can they find you guys on line and on the social media?

Patrick Wood  29:52  

Yeah, definitely. So our website is orbit dot love. That's right. L O V. It's kind of a funny, funny domain name, but it's There's a bigger brand story. So I mentioned the orbit model we created earlier. Earlier in the call, by the way, you can read about the orbit model and orbit model.com. But there are several parts of the orbit model. There's gravity, there's reach. And there's a metric called love. And we say, Love is the basically the recency, frequency and quality of every person's interaction over time. And we actually measure that with the product, but it's part of the orbit model sort of idea. So the website for the product is orbit dot love. And it's always fun to tell people that because, you know, my email addresses, Patrick at orbit dot love and then the conversation about like, what's, what's the deal with that, and we lean into that from a brand standpoint, so you can find us there. We have lots of resources on our blog about community building about tactics and tools and programs and best practices. And then we have a community of our own, which predominantly community builders, founders, developer advocates, folks like that. Invite us that discord dot orbit dot love for joining us to follow along we do office hours, your fireside chat to the servers we face. And then yeah, and then me personally, I'm just at Patrick J was on Twitter. So always happy to help founders talk about talking about these topics because we're rewarding the journey but it's been a tough one as well

Gabriel Flores  31:11  

man, ya know you and I feel like you have a lot of a lot of experience to give a lot of individuals that are that are seeking it. Thank you, Patrick Patrick Woods man thank you so much the co founder of orbit I'm again folks if you're interested, please get online check out the Oregon dot orbit dot love force for more information. I've really been looking at the actual online because again, magic fact we'll probably chat a little bit after this because I think there is an area for orbit in the ERG world. For those folks listening at home please subscribe to the newsletter at the shades of e.com or follow me at the shades of E on all the social sites including Tik Tok. Yes, we finally got there folks, we are on the tick tock Thank you and have a great night.