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Pallavi Pande


Pallavi Pande

Gabriel Flores  0:00  

Hello everyone and welcome to the shades of entrepreneurship. This is your host, Mr. Gabriel Flores. Today I am here with the founder of detox Pallavi Pandey. How are we doing?

Pallavi Pande  0:14  

We are doing excellent Gabrielle as best as we can do on a Monday on

Gabriel Flores  0:17  

a Monday. Yes. Hello. We're over here on a Monday. So first, let's introduce the world to you who is Pahlavi give him give him a little background introduction, kind of who are you?

Pallavi Pande  0:29  

Thank you for this opportunity. And Pallavi is a mom from your from Portland, Oregon. And what she really loves doing is she's on a mission to rescue fallen palm leaves and convert them into something that can be used at least one more time before they actually go to waste, which is in short, detox palm tableware brand. And why the word detox because again, we want people to think of the actual word detox, which is a cleansing journey. And we want to take this cleansing journey beyond the body to the environment, because to me, what is really important is what's on my plate and what is in my plate, and hence I started creating my own plates.

Gabriel Flores  1:08  

So where are you originally originally from here in Portland,

Pallavi Pande  1:11  

Oregon. I am not I lived in Ohio for 10 years. And before that I actually was born and I grew up in India, in the very north part of India. And while growing up we did used to visit the southern part of India and as hospitality service even today, we actually serve food on banana leaves. So that's a very cultural part of my childhood that I grew up with. And that's why I went back to my roots. And I was like, who can do this better than me? Somebody who is still eating on these and I go back, right? So I should be able to very easily get this concept to the restaurant world and start something here, which I'm not seeing because I really strongly feel this concept of the home palm leaf tableware. It's not, it's not new. It's not just me again, to be frank. But yes, it is very recent. I started seeing home leaf tableware a decade ago in the United Kingdom. I started seeing them in Australia. Do they see them in the United States? No, I don't think so. And that's where I found the bridge. And I was like, I'm gonna cross this bridge with these products because I know how to make them. I know where to make them. And I know why I need to make them because I myself was just tired of changing trash piles. When I was hosting. I was just done teaching that to my children. I was like, I think I need to do better parenting and let's find ways to do this.

Gabriel Flores  2:29  

Yeah, so let's let's explain to the listeners. What is detox? What are you trying to do? What is it a business.

Pallavi Pande  2:37  

So detox is a line out of compostable microwave safe single use disposables, and the beauty is they are made from naturally fallen palm leafs. Like I said, I rescue the Fallen palm leaf, which means we don't cut the trees we don't touch the leafs we wait for the leafs to just fall on the ground. And we pick them up. And then we give them one more use which is making them into these beautiful, elegant bamboo style looking with textures with wooden look very lightweight, and of course, more affordable and cheaper than bamboo faster in compostability, like literally two months in the backyard. So these are the single use disposables. And today when I when I started them, I treat them for people in the households were done using dishes all the time or wanted to break from doing dishes and have quality time. But then we ended up rippling these products into the food industry into the hospitality industry like events and weddings and campings and picnics. And of course the charcuterie industry, there was such a big change during the COVID years because that was expensive. You have to leave the bamboo boards with your customers. A lot of our pivot was from the charcuterie board owners like people who make these amazing cheese boards and jams and jellies. So we saw big a price in in our sales from charcuteries. Because they were all using our boards instead of expensive motherboards.

Gabriel Flores  3:59  

Nice now, so you rescuing fallen palm leaves now where you you're going back home, so I'm assuming this is kind of where this concept got created, right? You're starting to think about like, okay, we're seeing this done in India. I've not seen it done in the United States. But how do you do? How do you take a palm leaf and turn it into a plate?

Pallavi Pande  4:21  

Thank you for asking that. I do get that question a lot of times because people are flabbergasted like how it is not a very cumbersome job. No the only cumbersome part in this whole process is the collecting of the raw materials. So what happens is, in India, there's a cottage farm industry of palm leafs and there are a rack of palm trees in particular their main purpose is to produce a recommends and that those cabinets are like the BTMs they used in culinary purposes, food products, etc, etc. Once the nuts are done, the leaves just fall like any other tree and it collects on the floor and that's where our work starts. So we have a laboratory workforce laborious intensive work, were the women workforce that we employ, they go and they collect that raw material for us. And then they are cleaned, they are washed with clean water, the sun dried, to give them that dry instead of the green look, the brown look because they fall under the sun dry. Once the sun dry, we take, you'll be surprised that a leaf can be up to five foot high. So it's that tall, and it can be like five feet in like three feet in the wind. So one big leaf can give you a lot of plates or bowls depending on what your shape was. Right. So let's say you take the one big leaf and you put it under a hot compressive machine. So there are big, hot compressing machines. And then you make the molds from the shape you desire. For example, I have a mold that's 10 inch round. Or if I have a mold that which is made of steel, it's metal and metal mold. And then it gives the shape to those leaves when you had compressed and big leaf. And that's how you get to your table where then each table was sanitized under UV rays, and it's shrink wrapped, and then it's put in the box is ready to be shipped and sent to the customer.

Gabriel Flores  6:07  

Wow, that's quite the process. Now, I mean, how did you do you? Like do you outsource any of this process are you kind of involved with a lot of it?

Pallavi Pande  6:17  

It's a combination of both because we do invest in the molds and the people. Apart from the basic payroll we do provide our employees which are again, majority female workforce. And I love to mention it because my goal was to support the women workers in India and that is why I wanted to manufacture in India, I wanted to get the raw material in India. Some of the places where I can get the raw material would be Brazil, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, yes. But again, for me being my home country, having my representatives, me being able to go there and have that personal connection with somebody else was making a difference with me was important. And then having them that empowerment, giving them that bread earning title in a male dominated society was my main goal. And that's why I went to India and I source my raw material there. And then I asked them to manufacture their, the products with me. And then of course we go every year, we meet the team, the employees, we try to give them some benefits apart from their payroll. Some of that is it is a third party manufacturing, but it's just more than a third party. It's become a relationship and a family detox established.

Gabriel Flores  7:22  

I love it. Now, when did you start this company?

Pallavi Pande  7:25  

It has been a little longer than three years 2019 Right before the pandemic is when we started detox. And then we were going up and up and up. And then that's when COVID hit. And that was a heartbreaking time for me because that was the time when we actually saw zero sales. And I thought this is the end of my baby because nobody was happy. Nobody was celebrating. Nobody was buying, right. So that's the last thing people want to do with this ad. And there's so much havoc around people. So that's the time when I actually thought okay, this is my third business, my winter that I tried what's next. So that was a pop up came to me in 2009 2020, when the COVID.

Gabriel Flores  8:05  

So how So you started this in 2019. And you've you've scaled it pretty quickly to that you've actually won awards. So first, let's talk about some of the awards you want. And then to let's talk about how you scaled it. So let's some of the awards name off some of the awards that your team has won.

Pallavi Pande  8:20  

Sure. So I'm sure the listeners might have heard the big expos, which are the East Expo and the West Expo another food product. Expo. So we right in the beginning of our launch, we launched in August and October, two months into the business we snack the next day was at the East Expo. That was a huge exposure for us like a startup getting an award. And that was a first trade show ever, which was the most expensive trade show. So that was a big deal for us. And right after that COVID hit but during 2020 was when Shark Tank reached out to us, because they were seeing that we were pretty steady with our sales on Amazon. So what happened in 2020 was we also got into so Amazon has two sides of that sales. One is the consumer side, which is a seller central where anybody can go onto the account and order whatever they want. The other one is when to Central, which is more like a b2b side of Amazon, where they will buy stuff from you and then they do whatever they want with that. And very early in 2020, we were able to get into both of these channels. So that is very hard for brands to do either they are in one or there are none or with us. We happen to be in both and I think because of our sales and we were growing so much on Amazon Shark Tank reached out to us the new edition for Shark Tank twice. But of course we didn't have the numbers. We were just started right and it's okay to have victories. We had an experience we learned a lot. And I think that gave us good morale boost about marketing about social media, like we can do this by ourselves. We are photogenic people. We have a good family. We know our story. And we know how to say to the world so I think that was experience when I started to hold Social Media for for detox like, we were not present on any social media until then. But that's the boost the confidence I got, after auditioning, getting on the TV getting on the videos looking at myself like, Okay, I have the influence, I am the brand voice and nobody can do this better than me, it has to be me, or my children and my family. Why? Because we're in this together, we use these at home every day. And this is the message that has to come from all of us. That's how we started getting exposure. And then Portland, Oregon is such a small business community, community that everybody knows everybody. And I think the one most important thing I realized from being an enterpreneur, bipoc, women entrepreneur was more than thinking what I know, I thought what was important is who I know. And that is something I realized, very early on in my business. And I started connecting with any organization, any opportunity, any resource, any mentors that I could find, because of course, they all knew more than me, right? And I was open, I was curious, and I was ready to learn. And that's how we happen to scale 100 times and double our revenue every year and double our profits. And hence, it's been a wonderful growth, because we've been getting so much of small businesses love from local people, local businesses, everybody knows us. And that's the beauty when people know you know your story, know, your face a total different ballgame versus just using Internet being behind things that's not going to convey your message.

Gabriel Flores  11:25  

Yeah, I can't express this enough. And I think this is hopefully a message is probably starting to ring true. Now to some of these listeners. Networking is so important. Like, nobody's knows that you're selling anything if you're not networking and talking about it. And it's not being exceeded, right? It's just it's just meeting with people.

Pallavi Pande  11:42  

Yeah, and entrepreneurs, frankly, speaking pitch everyday, we try to sell everyday. But isn't that what we really doing? When we networking know, we building relationships, we are building our authentic authenticity, our brand, our mission, and that's all in our, in our voice on our face on our gestures. And that's what people need to see that what really motivates us. Why do we do this every day? And that's what comes from the heart?

Gabriel Flores  12:05  

No. So how did you start this business? It sounds like you primarily were focusing on the Amazon channels, the b2b and the direct to consumer. Now with that said, What is your experience with it? And is that the like major majority of where you're spending your time? Or do you see a brick and mortar in the future?

Pallavi Pande  12:24  

So to start with, yes, Amazon was our focus. And it really felt like putting my eggs in one basket. I was too scared. Because I've heard some notorious cases about blacklisting businesses and then nothing right, what happens then. So from that time, I was very aware, and I was like, I don't want to be in one basket. I want to split my axe. So hence, we started improving our website SEO, we started expanding into other online marketplaces like Etsy like And that's when it took us one year we we're not performing equally and on all the channels, but with time with an analysis of our products, because I liked it like crazy, like 2019, I launched 50 products who does that? Right, which which business launches so much, but I did. And I think I took a step back during COVID. Because not all my skis were fast selling, they were not selling at the same rates in volumes. And some were just sitting in the warehouse, making me lose money. Hence, I took that time during COVID When the sales were of course low. Instead of spending a lot of money in marketing, or ads, I just tried to narrow my study on our products and just make them quality products, better products, something where we could see the customer only needs this or that. So analyzing our customer needs, what their feedback was what they comments was. So that helped us strategize our revenue into all these channels. And that's how we've been growing 50% from Amazon and 50% from the website and all other retail channels. But that's not enough, because I see there's a huge demand, I still see we can fulfill what we have. So I do need to pivot into retail which is for example, we are in a small farm in Hillsboro, Ohio, Misha farms, where again, do we need to be in target we need to be in Whole Foods we need to be in Trader Joe's why? Because we don't want people to plan to place an order two weeks ago or wait for the delivery and when then wait for the delivery to skip the day. They really want the products on right so we want to make the products readily available and easily accessible off the shelf like when they're walking Oh, I like this. I want this right now. So I think that's my goal. And that's where I want to pivot up to three years off ecommerce into retail. I'm not so sure about a standalone retail at the timing. I don't think I'm ready for that. But yes, a third party retailer would be an excellent combination for us. So if there are any small business owners that have boutiques, marketplaces and are listening to this, maybe they can try putting our products on shelves and that way they can have a customers walking by foot traffic wanting products.

Gabriel Flores  15:03  

You know, I always use this podcast as like an opportunity to teach the listeners, right. And I think you just taught to two very valuable lessons. One, kind of like the premature scaling, right? You went and bought about a bunch of different things, and some were sitting. But then what you did was you took a step back, you looked at what your customers were buying, and then you started to focus on that, right, really kind of listening to what your customers wanted? Versus what do we believe our customers want? We as entrepreneurs, we kind of tend to do that, right? We believe we know what our customers want. But until you actually go back and get that kind of you no clarification, right? Or, or really kind of justify what you're actually selling, then then that kind of puts the rubber to the road. Now, how did you finance the business? Did you just kind of go start scaling small, you know, venture capital, did you go get a finance loan? Or is this all grassroots effort,

Pallavi Pande  15:53  

it was all Bootstrap is still all bootstrapped. And the beauty is that this business has given me enough revenue to put it back into the business, I have not yet taken loan. I have not even asked friends or family. My next goal if I need to, would be crowdfunding for sure. Because of all the love and support we see around us, because that's the best route. But I don't think I'm ready for equity funding yet. But depending again, on the wall, Liam's and if you're talking about really b2b, for example, we're getting into Hilton Hotel, they're all the resorts. I mean, that's when I might be open to equity funding, or angel investors or venture capitalists. So at the timing, I have been fortunate enough to put in whatever I'm making. So that's been helpful.

Gabriel Flores  16:35  

Nice. So I want to talk to you kind about the start of the business, like how you started. But I first really want because I think this actually might be the first time we've had a guest that has the experience with Shark Tank. What was your experience with Shark Tank? What process did you go to get on the show? And kind of what did you think about it?

Pallavi Pande  16:51  

It's like think it's very, it's nothing concrete. I mean, even if they do audition you there's no guarantee that it will be posted on the TV or you'll get something out of it. So if you have high hopes that it's going to pivot or do some magic until I don't think that's going to happen. But yes, you can, of course, hope for it that it does. And if it doesn't, it's really you who really needs to pivot this opportunity to use this as a exposure, brand awareness opportunity. That's what I used it for. And I think that helped us because people knew about our brand. And yeah, all I will say is, it's like a marketing tactic. If you get a shot by a site, great, that's, that's great. I'm not too lucky. You know, because it's a hard work, I'll say, well done. It's your hard work if you can get a shot by your side, too. And even if they do commit, sometimes the deal doesn't go through. So it's very haphazard, or it's not very concrete to begin with.

Gabriel Flores  17:46  

And I think that's another point you just made. Don't believe everything on TV sometimes ladies and gentlemen, sometimes those deals even though they're made, in fact, they I think they actually say it doesn't mean they're finalized deals, right, you still have to go through negotiation, the lawyers have to get involved. And so that's when things kind of get a little tricky. And one more tip

Pallavi Pande  18:05  

to the listeners. I mean, yes, sharks have great powers they are they have great resources. But please leverage the small business resources that are provided to you please, because sometimes the best outcomes come from the least expected places. So if you have an SBA or if you have a mentor, if you have a small business, or contact them, talk to them, try to get to all the nuts and grades of business. And I'm sure you'll get much more help than relying just on a shark.

Gabriel Flores  18:28  

It's very, very true. Now, what would you say has been easy about starting this business as

Pallavi Pande  18:33  

starting a business? Well, I will say the most important thing was my family support because I come from, this is a first generation business, I didn't know ARB about business. I'm a bipoc. Woman, I and I'm a woman. So all these combinations are very deadly. And I knew nothing about business. But I think I was very lucky. Or I just say very, my family was very supportive in what I was doing, because they believed in it equally as I did, why we're doing what we're doing or how we're doing. So whether it is using our own products to hand washing them, to drying them to posting a picture of them. Everybody did every everything was just not me running behind the whole business by myself. Like my daughters came up with ideas in the morning. Like I wake up and they like nine o'clock at the breakfast table. Hey, Mom, let's do this today. Let's make a real baby doing this with the product. I'm like, okay, and they are what, eight and 10. Now. So I'm like, okay, that's that's when you see you have a family who's thinking just like you, you replicate it yourself. And that's where the business becomes easy. And it's easy to balance your life and your personal life and your business life because everything is going together at the same time. Yeah. And you don't have to segregate this from this or this with that.

Gabriel Flores  19:42  

Yeah. And I think engaging, you know, the way you engage your daughters at such a young age, that's very valuable for so many reasons. One, it's teaching them, you know, some business security, right, so they're getting some acclimated with some of these things. But too, we're learning from them. I mean, these are our future customers, right? And they're the ones that know the trends. In the tiktoks, and they're watching the reels, pay attention to what those kids are doing, because eventually they're going to be your consumers. So just be mindful of that, you know, now what would you say has been difficult about starting this business?

Pallavi Pande  20:11  

Oh, definitely, like I mentioned bipoc women, and the first generation in the business world, it just felt very, very alone. Like, I was like, no support, no knowledge, no recess, or lack of resources. Resources, is something where I was really scared. And that's why we wake up every morning. But how can I do this? Or how will I find that out? But I think the last two years during pandemic because of sales were slow. That gives me a good window to do my awareness part for small businesses, what is available, what I can reveal, who can I leverage? Who can I talk to? So I think that gives me a good push to find people online and connect with them and meet them. And that's been a great web of networking that I've done here in Portland. You know,

Gabriel Flores  20:59  

for this interview, what I'm hearing is you have been busting your ass. What motivates you, I'm here are working right? What continues to motivate you to continue to work so hard?

Pallavi Pande  21:12  

It's definitely not a Red Bull or any pills. That that moderation every morning to this is not enough. I need to do more. And of course, like I said, My children every morning when they come up with every idea, everyday new idea of like, why can I not write their kids. And this is a this is mine. This is really I need to make it mine. And this is my baby. And I really can't stop myself. It's like, I never get fatigued out or I never get tired. Like people when they get tired. What do they do? They watch tick tock they watch real they sometimes do Netflix, something having glass of wine or beer? What do I do? I go to my business, my social media, and I'm posting I'm making content and I'm doing pictures, because that's what keeps me going. And I'm never tired. Not one single morning, am I tired? So that's my true passion. And I love doing what I'm doing. And that's how I keep going.

Gabriel Flores  22:06  

What as a business owner keeps you up at night, let's go the opposite route.

Pallavi Pande  22:11  

Oh, boy, the pandemic perhaps? Hopefully. Because not only am I worried about the sales, but to my whole business structure where manufacturing in India. I mean, if this happens again, right now I'm suffering enough, like the containers that I used to get for five grand now I have to spend 10 times the money. So that keeps on going, I don't know how much will I be able to sustain and be able to outsource it from India, I mean, I don't know we'll have to end it, we'll have to really, I can't cut down on my margins, I can't cut down on my prices, because I'm anyway, spending right now on premium, the only thing I would be left with is going down on quality, which I really don't want to do, because that's what really makes my palm leaf tableware different from our competitors. Like if you lay down five of our competitors, what you will really see what even Shark Tank A lot of Amazon, a lot of world renowned chefs, most of the people have given us that for you that our quality is premium quality. And I vouch for it because I myself go down to India and we look at a raw material. And that's where we decide that which raw material we want to go with.

Gabriel Flores  23:17  

You mentioned, you know, sustaining right? How do you define sustainability?

Pallavi Pande  23:22  

So I think there are two ways that I define it theoretically, because we don't deplete anything from natural resources. We just pick up the renewable resources, which in this case are the Fallen palm leaves, and we convert them into something that can be used. That's one way to define sustainability in the true term. Apart from that, in a more practical way of being a parent or mompreneur, I say, when I'm able to create a lifestyle, where we can live it to the same level, is when it comes to sustainability. That's why we say we should have habits because they help us keep sustainable lifestyle, a level of way living way of living. So I think that's why they find sustainability. It could be it could be more sustainable, less sustainable, right? It could be yes, I use plastics, but do I buy more plastics? Now I try to use whatever I have to the most extreme Mutti. But will I buy more plastics? Perhaps not unless it's really needed. So again, sustainability, the threshold the extremity of it can be undefined in very variable variables where somebody is in their lifestyle, do they earn enough to support that lifestyle? Do they are less or it's just so depending on variables, but yes, living away, living a life in a certain way sustainability for me?

Gabriel Flores  24:39  

What are what are some of those routines that you do to kind of keep your business being sustainable?

Pallavi Pande  24:45  

Oh, great question. For us. It would be definitely using ethical products. No chemicals in the farms. We tried to make sure that there are no toxins in the farming of the palm trees the way they'd grown. And we pay fair wages to our employees, and we go meet them in person, just to build that rapport and relationship and some of the SDGs we do follow would be no poverty, equal pays for men and women, which is a big deal in India, because in old times as men is to get more money than women, and that was not liked. So we tried to do that pay them equally. And yeah, using water as much as you need to clean not overdoing. And again, not misusing water resources or that's yes,

Gabriel Flores  25:36  

yeah, definitely, definitely. Now, what would you say? Like, would you consider company a fair trade? I'm just learning about the Fair Trade definition. Would you guys consider yourself a fair trade?

Pallavi Pande  25:47  

Yes, we would. And we'll say it's very transparent. Because every dollar that we do get as a profit, so what one of our key mission is also to support the community back in India, like I said, the majority female workforce apart from their periods, we tried to give them extra benefits, that is also a part of our mission is to go back to them by the end of every year, and then give them a share of our profits. Nice. So that's, yeah,

Gabriel Flores  26:14  

that is really nice. You know, I think that too, just really kind of solidifies like your business of being really back in kind of ingrain yourself into the community. And to your point, what you mentioned in the beginning, going back to your roots and your heritage, right, kind of back to your now, what is some advice you would give to some of the listeners, maybe they're aspiring entrepreneur, what advice would you give them?

Pallavi Pande  26:36  

So one thing I do regret in my life as I wish I had started this way or your but no regrets, because I am still here doing it. And I will only say that the first best time to do something is gone. The only thing you can do about is use this time now because this is the best second time that's come just falling in your lap. So So go do it, whatever it is, because without doing it, let me know. Right? You'll never find out. You know,

Gabriel Flores  27:02  

I said this before, I think one of the episodes that I think the difference between an entrepreneur and everybody else is the entrepreneur does it. Right? Everybody has the idea. Everybody has the idea. It's the difference is taking that idea and putting some practicality behind it and trying to make a business out of it. All right. And you have to

Pallavi Pande  27:19  

be a risk taker, you have to be a trailblazer, because you don't know what path you're walking on. But if you believe in it, it's not far from reach.

Gabriel Flores  27:29  

Have you ever had a moment of self doubt?

Pallavi Pande  27:33  

Oh, yes. A lot of times. I mean, sometimes Yeah, I'm a mom, right? Moms go through self doubts every day and personalized. So this is no different from my personal life. Like I said, for me, it's all together when and the same thing. So there has been times, but again, putting yourself in the basket with other small business owners seeing their failures or their achievements. That's where you can really measure. Why am I doubting myself, this is good, or I've done good, or this is okay, this is where I need to go. So that helps you make yourself aware to what your goals should be and how you should get them. Yeah,

Gabriel Flores  28:07  

you know, I talked before about impostor syndrome, and kind of how that self doubt creeps in. Everybody had to start that starting line at one point in life, right? Nobody knows everything. But I think one thing that you pointed out is getting out in network, we've been in individuals that have experienced that have the knowledge that maybe you do not have, because in truth, you probably have experience and knowledge that the individuals that you're learning from, they're learning from you, right? It's kind of a shared, and I talk about this often, we're a global, of entrepreneurs, you know, and so having this global opportunity to meet with individuals, I'm meeting with you, and you're from India. I mean, I'm learning a lot from this episode. And so having that opportunity to network with folks, so important, I can't even begin to tell you guys, folks that listening it just really, truly is important. Now, for those folks at home, how do they get in contact with you? Where's your business, email, social media, let them know how they can get in contact with you and buy some of your some of your where?

Pallavi Pande  29:01  

Sure. So we do sell nationwide in the United States, we do provide free shipping anywhere in the 50 states. So people can go to our website, which is and hear the spelling of the word detoxes their friend because we want to make the word with a twist, people to think, and the spelling is DTCs. But it's inspired from the actual word detox again, right? So the website is a way to get in touch and see all our inventory. Another few ways would be if you're a big supporter of epsy or, or Amazon, you can find us there and like I said, if people like to reach out to me directly, I love answering people's questions, sending them samples, if there's anything that I can make you to fall in love with our products to make you feel experience our products so that you can touch them, you can feel them you can try them yourself because you can microwave them you can compose them into months in the backyard, whatever it is that you need to make yourself fall in love with the products do reach out to me too. rectly and I'm sure we can post my LinkedIn profile where people can check out my profile or get in touch on social media with us where I personally take the opportunity to talk to each individual person sends a message I love

Gabriel Flores  30:12  

it. And again folks go ahead and check it out. That's DTOC Pallavi thank you so much. This was an awesome conversation very very interesting things and folks home I hope you guys are listening and take her up on the option. information will also be available on the shades of E newsletter. If you're not subscribed, please visit the shades of Without that, please follow me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at the shades of E and have a great night

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