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Jeremy Miner

7th Level

Jeremy Miner

Gabriel Flores  0:00  

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the shades of entrepreneurship. This is your host, Mr. Gabriel Flores. Today I'm here with Jeremy Miner 7th level, how are we doing boss?

Jeremy Miner  0:12  

I am doing good. You know, it's a it's a nice, cool 106 degree day. But that's what happens, you know.

Gabriel Flores  0:23  

Calling in from Arizona, trying not to melt. Jeremy, before we get into the 7th level I want to ask, to give the listeners a background, who is Jeremy?

Jeremy Miner  0:34  

So I don't want to bore anybody so yeah, I'm a chairman and founder of a sales training company called seventh level word, corporate headquarters here in Scottsdale, Arizona. For the US our international headquarters are in Sydney, Australia, we have an office in Dubai. And now we're kind of all over the place. But I went to college at Utah, Utah Valley University. So my background is behavioral science and human psychology I'm interested in I started learning from very early age and my first sales job in college, that what the company was training me that I got a job for and what I was learning from what I now call the old sales gurus, that a lot of it actually triggered sales resistance, it actually worked against human behavior. So I was taking what I learned from behavioral science, that theory and how do I wrap that into a sales process. And once I learned how to do that selling became extremely easy, and very, very profitable for sure. So that's kind of a basic background of where I came from. Now I had a 17 year sales career. I retired for about two years in my late 30s. And then about four years ago, I started seventh level. And we've we've grown grown pretty rapidly, some would say,

Gabriel Flores  1:56  

Yeah, let's let's talk about it. What is seventh level, give the listeners at home a little

Jeremy Miner  2:01  

global sales training company, we train all the way from Fortune 500 clients, all the way down to SMB all the way down to individual salespeople that really sell anything. And we train them what is called neuro emotional persuasion, questioning how to how to work with human behavior, how to use certain questions and techniques that trigger your prospects to want to engage to want to open up to you and eventually pull you in. Rather than you trying to fight them and chase them down. It makes selling a lot more easier. And like I said, a lot more profitable for sure.

Gabriel Flores  2:38  

So when I think of cell phones, right, I think I think a lot of people probably think of that, like used car salesman, right, trying to sell you on anything. What are some of the things you do to kind of flip the script and make individuals you know, as a salesman, make them like humanize them, but kind of make them feel like because if

Jeremy Miner  2:54  

If you're using techniques like that, I mean, you're pretty much a below average salesperson in our day, because those techniques, don't worry, you've been more cautious than were skeptical about making the wrong buying decisions than they've ever been before. Right. So I think I think probably the best way to kind of explain what you just asked me to is doing it this way. So I'll do this. So if you're, if anybody's driving, don't run off the road, but it's a piece of paper, write this down. So, cording to behavioral science, okay, there are three forms of persuasion. Okay? And once you understand where you are now, in your current sales ability, okay, even if you're doing good compared to where you could be, it'll completely change everything for you. Okay, so the first mode of communication, I won't get the scientific term, I'll kind of give like names that probably anybody would, could recognize. Okay. So if I asked you so Gabriel, I said, What's the first image that comes to your mind when I say, boiler room selling? What would be that image?

Gabriel Flores  3:57  

Oh, I think of like, people stock paper going crazy. Yeah, like,

Jeremy Miner  4:01  

on Wall Street. Yeah. On Wall Street, got Leonardo DiCaprio.

Gabriel Flores  4:06  

You know, that's me. That's pin.

Jeremy Miner  4:08  

Yes. Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. So air one would be like that. Give us the non scientific term, like boiler room selling. Alright. So we're the least persuasive when we tell people things, okay? Or we tend to dominate them, or posture that manipulate them, push them into doing something we want them to do, okay? Like, if you watch that movie boiler room sudden, like, Hey, I've got a great opportunity for you. And then we talk about the features and the benefits. And we have the best this and we have the best that and then we try to push them to buy right? So it's just like if you tell your teenagers, that you really really need to clean your room, and then you keep pushing, pushing, pushing, what do they typically do back?

Gabriel Flores  4:46  

They'll clean the room, push back.

Jeremy Miner  4:50  

It's human behavior, one on one. And most salespeople do that. And then they wonder why people push back. It's just the way human brain works. So I'll give you a few examples of the least persuasive way to sell. Okay. So the first way, least persuasive way according to the science is presenting and producing what I have to have a great presentation, I have to admit my hour and a half of slide decks and I have to show my corporate office. And here's a picture of our founders. And here's our board of directors. And here's our Customer Service Awards with a JD Power and Associates and we're a triple A business rating with the BBB, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's all of our clients. We have the best this we have the best that which by the way, how many salespeople do you guys talk to that ever say? Yeah, Sally, we've got the fifth best service in the market. Nobody does, right? Everybody says they're the best. So when we say things like that, that we have the best this we have the best quality, the best service, and we talk down about our competitors, psychologically, just so everybody knows your prospects actually trust you far less. I know people like what I thought they trust me more, we'll know why did they trust you less because every single salesperson that's ever tried to sell them anything, has all said the same thing. So they just categorize you with everybody else here. You got to stay away from that. Okay. So they trust you that so? So typically, according to the data, your presentation, cuz you said to have a presentation, right? Presentation shouldn't be more than 10% of your entire sales process. Whether you sell b2b or b2c. That's the problem, because the average salesperson in b2b or b2c presents over half of the time. That's a major issue. We could go on for another couple hours to that telling your story. Okay, hate to tell you this when you sell one to one. Nobody cares about your story, whose story they mainly care about their own their own story. Okay, given a sales pitch we've all been taught you gotta give a great pitch. You ever watch Shark Tank on CNBC? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you see, like Daymond John, Mark Cuban Barbara, Mr. runner for all those guys. Watch the entrepreneurs, when they come out, and they're all excited and they start pitching, start watching the body language of the sharks. They're like this, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay. You got to ditch the pitch. All right. Nobody wants to be pitched to and sold that. All right. They want to be asked heard and more importantly, understood, okay, putting sales pressure on it. Okay, there is a massive difference in learning the right questions skills, that trigger the prospect to feel so much internal tension, about how bad their problems are, and how they have to change that compared to applying external sales pressure on them completely two different things, once we understand the difference in that you can make a lot more money in sales, right? And the big one is assuming the sale, coordinate the data, very low on the persuasion poll, especially if you're more of a complex sales environment that requires multiple calls and touches. That's the first mode. Least persuasive. Okay. Second mode is more known as maybe everybody didn't buy this consultative selling. You've heard of consultative selling, right? So we're more persuasive when we attempt to have like a discussion with another person with the prospect right? I would most of consultative selling came out in the ad several books, but one of the most popular books was by a college professor by Neil Rackham never sold anything by the way, called SPIN Selling. And he taught that you needed to ask logical base questions to find out the needs of the client which makes sense, right? Better than boiler room selling okay. But what is the potential downfall when you only ask logical base questions we call the surface level questions where your prospect is going to give you what type of answers in return surface level answers okay, logical based answers and to human beings make buying decisions on logic or emotion.

Gabriel Flores  8:47  

Oh, emotion all time I represent emotion brands.

Jeremy Miner  8:50  

Shadow doubt. So when you say things like what's keeping you awake at night? Can you tell me two challenges you're having and who besides you and be involved in this decision? What are you looking for in a solution? These are all surface level questions, right? Have to go much deeper with our questioning and clarifying and probing for the prospect to even want to answer those questions because they know what you're doing. So those type of questions you want to avoid because why every single salesperson that sells anything, asked the same surface level questions. Alright, you with me? So more, like I said, more persuasive than manipulating, pressuring, assuming the sale but you're selling to play the numbers game because you're bringing really very little emotion out by asking surface level questions. Alright, now third mode. I'm gonna go fast. Okay, third mode is more known as what's called dialogue. Okay, that's air three type of sales. We are more the most persuasive when we allow others to persuade themselves when we asked this is where it comes in. What are called neuro emotional persuasion questions that stands for any PQ now, people always ask me anytime I do a keynote anything like, how do we get somebody to persuade themselves? That's like the $10 billion question. Right? Can you just show up? Hey, Gabriel, just persuade yourself and here's where you send the funds. No, you have to learn Okay, specific skill questions and when and how to ask those questions like your verbal pausing your tone in different parts of the conversation, and a step by step structure that will get your prospects to pull you in and sell themselves rather than you trying to push them and chase after them. You see the difference? So that's what any PQ stands for. You know, it's interesting, boring, nerdy stuff.

Gabriel Flores  10:39  

No, no, it's interesting, because you can say in sales, sell, sell, sell sells, but at the end of the day, you're not selling if you're building a relationship.

Jeremy Miner  10:49  

Well, you know, nothing relationships one day, I think that means different things to different people, what I'm doing is I'm building my status in that prospects mind. You, you as a salesperson, they don't view you as a salesperson, right? Right, they start to view you as the expert, they start to view you as the trusted authority, who's going to get them the results they want. They don't view you as somebody trying to sell them something. They view you as, like almost you have the keys of the kingdom that they will gladly pay more money to, to get them where they want to be. Whereas the view all these other pushy salespeople is just trying to push something down their throat, and that's how they get treated. So it's a whole different status that you're elevated to.

Gabriel Flores  11:35  

So why did you start to so you know, you 17 years of sales and then you behavioral health? You know, degree Oh, health, just behavioral? Behavioral Science? Yes. But why? Why did you? Why did you start this business after being you know, three years of retirement enjoying the good life?

Jeremy Miner  11:51  

I've only retired about a year and a half. Okay. That's two years. Okay. Well, first of all, probably about a year in, I got really bored. I do read a lot. I mean, was doing something, when I say retire is probably still working. In our day, I was doing some like private consulting here and there, but I was just doing whatever I wanted, right? Traveling, whatever, okay. But I started seeing all these ads on social media, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, from all these sales gurus. Everybody was buying their stuff and following it, and I started looking into it. I'm like, huh, if I sold that way, that that guy's telling all these people to sell, I would have made about 95%, less commissions, this stuff doesn't work. Like I know that trigger sales resistance, like what they're training people, literally is not going to get them what they want what they're saying they want. So you get to a point where you see that so often, where you have a certain skill level that you've acquired, nobody's born with those skills, right? Like you're not born out of your mother's womb with advanced questioning skills, right? Nobody's born with advanced tonality skills, right? Nobody's born with advanced objection prevention skills, you acquire those skills, you learn those skills. So you if you have those skills, which I feel like, you know, God puts people in your direction that you need to learn from, to get you to a certain level, to I think, give back and help other people. So I really believe that. So you get to a point where you're like, Okay, well, there's millions of these salespeople that are all struggling, they're beating their head against the wall, hoping and praying that something they're going to learn from these guys who haven't sold for probably 30 years, is going to magically work for them. And I know it's not because I was one of the top salespeople in the entire planet at that point with what I was making per year. So it's like, what do you do? Do you just like, oh, okay, well, sucks for them? Or do you throw your hat in the ring, and you actually help people? And I decided to do that. So that's what we did.

Gabriel Flores  13:52  

Now, not only did you do it, but you have scaled quickly. I mean, you were your ranking on the top 15, fastest growing company United States by incorporating top 5000 companies in 2021. I mean, featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine. How did you scale so quickly? Is it is it just because you've done it?

Jeremy Miner  14:13  

Well, you can go away, you can scales because you get your clients massive results, and we have almost 8000 testimonials in the first four years. Most of those have come in the last 30, probably about 30 months. So 1000s of testimonies when you have more than probably any other sales training company that's in the United States, it's probably been around for 30 or 50 years. You know, you only grow based on the results you clients get. So yeah, so the last two years so we just won the same award with the Ink Magazine. So I'm a contributor for Ink Magazine now to write about one or two articles a month. I'm lazy I should write one every week but but you know, so Inc ranked us the last two years in a row. So two years ago, we were ranked number 1232 fastest growing companies overall. But as far as the sales training come We're ranked number one fastest growing sales training company this year, we moved up to number three in our 91 fastest growing companies United States. And ranked number one, again, fastest growing sales training company. So that's good. But it means, you know, sometimes we have to slow, you know, like, push off the gas, because as your company grows that fast, you, it's not just about making sales, but it's about being able to fulfill on what people are purchasing. So we could quite literally probably grow faster even now and spend more money on ads and like, even double sales in a few months, but you have to put in the right fulfillment team, you have to train trainers, you have to make sure that you have the structure there. So as you grow, you know, you don't have problems where then not all your clients are getting results. So to us, it's more important that we will slow down to make sure our clients are getting the results that they paid for to get them where they want, rather than like growing crazy, even faster. I mean, probably right now, from what we've understood, we're probably in the top seven biggest sales training companies, the United States in the first four years and working everybody ahead of us has been around for at least 30 years. Wow. So you know, it's just about results. But like I said, I don't run the business anymore. I stepped down as the CEO two years ago, so my business partner is the CEO because he's much better at running the business. And I just focus on all the the virtual training we do and, and all that stuff, training our sales trainers for our clients. So that's that's kind of my wheelhouse. That's what I specialize in, I guess,

Gabriel Flores  16:31  

speaking of specializing what, what motivates you, I mean, you this is a lot of work, you're putting a lot of work and energy into this, what motivates you to get up every day and just keep going?

Jeremy Miner  16:41  

I you know, there's a lot of things that motivates me. But I would say the biggest thing that motivates me are once again, clients results, because I love like we typically get probably about 10 to 15 new testimonials every single day. So we have, we have a lady in the company, that's all she does. She just gathers the testimonials, we don't ask, these are people that just post them in our Facebook groups. They post them because once you become a client, you're in different Facebook groups that we have, depending on what program you're in. And they just go in and post we don't ask, okay, if we ask you probably get a lot more. But she gathers the testimonials. I read them the first day when I come in the morning, and it just kind of gives me it just gives me more just, you know, the best gasoline in the world. I guess I don't know how to describe that to keep this going. Because, you know, our goal as a company is to become the largest sales training company in the world. I mean, we were dead serious about that. But we can only do that based on our clients results. So that's why we focus on clients results first. And because of that we've grown exceptionally fast for sure. And we'll keep doing that.

Gabriel Flores  17:48  

Now what keeps you up at night in regards to a business

Jeremy Miner  17:52  

you know, nothing really keeps you up at night I sleep pretty good, actually nice. We have a we have a big thing that only gets, it seems like it gets better every week. So we're excited. We bring a new Tim Tim members every week, either in this office or our Sydney, Australia office, we have a lot of our people that work from home virtually now. But we're opening up an office in London around December as well. So we're gonna put a big office in London, because we have a lot of sales trainers and our salespeople there as well. So we're just having lots of fun. I'm actually see pretty good actually.

Gabriel Flores  18:24  

I love it. So what has been easy about this process about kind of scaling this business the last four years?

Jeremy Miner  18:29  

What's been easy? Well, I'll tell you the first two years were not very easy, especially the first year because the first year was me. And it was my assistant. And one part time salesperson. Quite literally, I'm not kidding, like our growth, even in the last two and a half years has been crazy.

Gabriel Flores  18:44  

And how many employees are yet now?

Jeremy Miner  18:46  

We have like 107 Oh, wow. Yeah. So like the first year was me. And my assistant, who decided to come over with me, who was my assistant, my job. So a couple years, I'm like, Hey, I'm starting a sister and a company, you want to be my assistant? Sure. So it was me and her basically, for the first year, okay, I was trying to run the whole business, do everything plus all the training and you just, you know, after working, you know, seven days a week for straight year, you just kind of like well, this is not that exciting, right? I should just go back if I want to do some I'll go back into one of my sales jobs or something. But then you know, the next year we started growing, okay, and about, you know, a year and a half in. I met my business partner, Matt Ryder, who's the CEO. He's actually became a client the year before. And we helped him scale his company which he sold. And then I convinced him I hate come over and be the CEO here because he was so good at running just business in general. And since then, since he came in and built the structure and just had me focus in my lane of sales training. That's when we started going like this, like month I think month on month growth of about 35 to 55% every single month, month after month after month after month after month. Then you it's all about having the right team like I can't emphasize, you know, if you're listening to us right now, and you're an entrepreneur or you're wanting to start your own business, I know you had to bootstrap it in the beginning, but you really have to get a business partner that has skills that you don't have. So maybe you're really good at operations, okay, and that's your wheelhouse, okay, your financials, you don't want to have a business partner that's really good at that. Either. You want to have a business partner that's really good at marketing, or sales or something. Because you have to really build off that foundation, like your weakest link, your business partner needs to be strong in and that's why me and our C are so good together. Okay. Now, you know, we brought on a chief revenue officer. Now, that's part of the company that has really expanded us greatly, probably in the last two years, his name's Marco. And so you start to build the right team. And once you start building that foundation, the right team, marketing, team, sales, operation, finances, it's almost impossible to do, especially when you have like products and services that really get people results, you just, it just, it just happens. Like you can't stop it at that point. But if you don't have the right team, you can have the greatest product and service in the world. But without the right team, you're really not going anywhere, I can promise you that.

Gabriel Flores  21:13  

You know, it's interesting, as you mentioned, you met you met your partner, kind of as a former client, and that kind of how it kind of created, how important is networking in their business?

Jeremy Miner  21:22  

I think networking is really important. We have a rule in our company, that pretty much nobody that works with us, like any salesperson or sales manager, or anybody that's in the any that side. Like they only get hired if they'd been a client and understand

Gabriel Flores  21:40  

what Yeah, makes sense.

Jeremy Miner  21:42  

We don't hire anybody outside of that. We have people apply all the time, sorry, you're not one of our clients, you want to work for us, become a client, learn how to sell with what you're selling, do really well. And then we'll consider you to come work for us. And that's just the way we roll. And because of that, we've expanded very fast. But yeah, networking is obviously really important, you know, finding the right team. But you know, for us, it's very important that we're we're hiring people that already to understand what we do and believe in what we do. Right. And most of our salespeople, they're seeing, you know, a few here and there that a little bit older, but our average age of our average salesperson is about 23 years old, okay? Very, very young, because we want to train them the right way from day number one, okay. And sometimes we'll have like an old school guy that's, you know, 55 years old, and they're just set in their ways, and they don't, they just don't want to learn, like selling has changed drastically since they started right. Now, that's not to say we don't have older people that are clients that start crushing it, and then come we do, but our average person is a lot younger, and we train them the right way from from day number one. So

Gabriel Flores  22:48  

yeah, you know, in fact, you mentioned change, how did the sales world change after the, during the pandemic? Or and after, I guess?

Jeremy Miner  22:56  

Well, I mean, I think, I mean, as far as changing from the pandemic, I think it's more logistical. You know, I think like, you know, we train a lot of companies and insurance, car sales, want to train 158 industries, but I'll give you two different examples. So, you know, there's a very large insurance company that we train that has, like, 13,000 agents or something here in the US, and they were freaking out when COVID it because they're like, Oh, guys, we don't know what to do. We can't go into people's homes, like we're thinking about filing bankruptcy and like, What are you talking about? This is the greatest thing that's ever happened to your industry. Because why because now your salespeople drive out 30 miles to this appointment, that person's not there. So then they drive 50 miles over here, spend an hour and a half with this lady she buys she might not buy, then they drive crew across town here 35 miles, that person's not here, then they drive over here. 10 Miles make a sale. And then on the way home, they see if they can knock a few doors, you saw four people that day. Now, with leads, when you call them, let's say you you have people that get them on a call triage, you transform into like a Zoom meeting, you can see 1214 people a day, you're seeing three times as more prospects every day virtually on Zoom, you learn the right skills, it doesn't matter if you're in the home or on Zoom, and their sales went up over 300% The next two years, just because they were talking, they were seeing a lot more prospects and they'll never go back to the way they were doing before. See, that just changed their whole way of thinking. They just didn't know what they didn't know, car sales to you know, we train the largest used car dealership in Canada. It's called 401. Auto. Okay. And they came on about two months before COVID. Now remember, Canada was extremely strict with their lock downs. I don't know if it was strict where you're at, like here in Arizona was closed down maybe five weeks. Back to Oregon, Oregon was strict. Yeah. But in Canada, they were like, I mean, they were locked down up until like, maybe six months ago, seven months ago. And quite literally, you could not go into a car dealership. It was illegal. You couldn't walk into a retail place like that. Okay, you get a run stuff. So we taught him how to put their salespeople home, generate leads and started learning from you know how to get leads, people are still looking for cars, right? They're still driving, okay. And they would start getting people on Zoom meetings, and they would make the sale over zoom. And then they would meet that person at the car dealership outside because it couldn't go inside, do the paperwork, here's your keys, and they would drive off, their sales went up over 120% The next year during COVID. And they couldn't even go into their offices. And they were thinking about filing bankruptcy because they freaked out. And a lot of a lot of car dealerships out there did and for one bought a lot of them, because they had a bunch of cash coming in. So it's just how it's just how you view things, what happens like businesses that that okay, thought outside the box, and we're open to change thrive, companies that just couldn't get out of their own way of thinking, this is the only way we can do it. Those are the ones that die. Right now, there are some industries that, you know, like I, we have a client out of the UK, that's the largest advertising company, it's like when you walk into an airport, and you see all the big screens in the commercials, where they're the ones that sell that advertising space, I know every large airport in the world, okay. And you know, like when you get on a flight and you read the little magazines with all the ads, they're the ones that sell that ad space, okay? If there's zero planes, there's not much you can do. So they had to wait about four or five, six months now than we could do for them, right? That you're those planes going on. And you're in plants, you can't really, but for the most part, if you learn how to change, and you can adapt and think outside the box, you can thrive when those situations happen. It's only the ones who think that there's only one way to do it that typically die.

Gabriel Flores  26:45  

Yeah, makes sense. Now, what advice would you have for these inspiring entrepreneurs, as folks that are listening at home, you have a lot of sales tips, what advice would you have for him?

Jeremy Miner  26:55  

Well, you know, I think a lot of business owners take this position like, Oh, I'm not in sales. I don't need to learn how to sell. But I think one thing we don't understand, is it like everybody on planet Earth in one way or the other is in sales. Let's think about it here. Even if you don't get paid a commission. I mean, you're a business owner, you're in sales, right? Like if you're trying to convince, if you're trying to get your employees that you're hiring right now, to follow the vision of where do you want to take your company? What are you doing? You're trying to persuade, you're trying to influence and you're trying to convince and move others, right? So we call that non sales selling, you're not making a commission necessarily, but you're still out there everyday trying to influence persuade, move others I mean, if you're an attorney, who's trying to convince a jury of your peers that your clients innocent, what do you do it? You're trying to persuade, you're trying to influence you're trying to convince them right? If you're, let's say, a teacher, who's trying to convince their kids to do their homework and get better grades, what are you trying to do? You're trying to persuade, influence, convince, right? Help. You're arguing politics online, if you do it the right way. You're trying to persuade, influence and move others so really, everybody on planet Earth and one form is in sales because everybody's trying to move, persuade, and convince others every single day of their lives. So especially as a business owner, you probably want to learn those skills because I can assure you business owners who learn those skills far out earn business owners who don't learn those skills. It just is what it is. Yeah,

Gabriel Flores  28:33  

no, it makes sense. Now for listeners at home that are interested in the seventh level kind of want to get more in depth about it how do they find your information where social media

Jeremy Miner  28:43  

they can they can get they can get some nibbles first before they get any training. But it just haven't joined our free Facebook group. That's we have about 30,000 people in that Facebook group I think I gave you lane so haven't go to www dot sales revolution dot Pro. So sales revolution dot Pro, and right when they join, have them check their Facebook Messenger because somebody in my team will, they'll say, Hey, I'm with sevens level, will message them over a free training called the CPQ, one on one mini course. And it's our CEO, just breaking down the different stages of NVQ, from connecting to commitment, and he's gonna give you some examples of different questions you can use for different sales situations you're in right now, that alone will probably help you sell even more than you're doing now. But we typically go live in that Facebook group about three to four times a week. Different q&a is different training, but that'll give them a little hors d'oeuvre, kind of what we do. And if they want to really learn an advanced skill, so they sell a lot more. They can just obviously message us in that Facebook group, they'll have all the contact information or they can always reach out.

Gabriel Flores  29:51  

Perfect, Jeremy awesome. And again, folks, I'll have all this information in regards to the N EPQ Facebook information as well. Well on the newsletter so please feel free to subscribe to the newsletter, Jeremy miner, the co founder, former CEO of sevens level. Oh man, thank you so much. I mean I'm I'm all amped up like you got me you drop in just amazing information. I think I really hope the listeners are really taking notes because there was really some good insight and I in fact after this, I want to chat with you a little bit about you mentioned some public speaking so I want to chat with you about that. So I think I might have a national conference. I kind of think that you'd be perfect good for so folks at home, please, please check us out on the shades of You can also follow me at the shades of E on all the social channels and yes, I did get a tick tock but you will not see me dancing on that. Please subscribe to the newsletter, and have a great night 

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