Elizabeth Fisher

Gabriel Flores  0:00  

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the shades of entrepreneurship. This is your host, Mr. Gabriel Flores. Today I'm here with Elizabeth Fisher from lava. I've I kind of airy, very, very interested about this. I eat yogurt very often me and my wife, were actually talking about this company because I was like, Hey, I'm about to interview this entrepreneur. But before we get into lava, Elizabeth, give us a little background, who is Elizabeth Fisher?

Elizabeth Fisher  0:28  

Oh, well, thank you so much, Gabriel. It's wonderful to be asked who is Elizabeth Fisher? I mean, it's, I think my husband suggested asked me a similar question a few years ago, and I just, he asked me to describe myself. And I said, I am lighthearted and philosophical. So those two things together, I really do think I am light hearted and philosophical. And it's kind of held me in good stead. But I am 60, something white woman who has worked my whole life, and loved work was I had a father who was a real world class sales guy, and not in the food industry, but just had the gift of sales. And there, I do believe there is a gift involved in that. And I come from a family of Penn graduates, my grandmother was the first woman to graduate from the University of Pennsylvania. And, yes, I mean, when they just the first graduating class, and she went on to become a politician. So you got sort of this transactional sales background with my dad, and then a lot of art, and culture and literature throughout, on my mother's side of the family. But I was really not very good at school. You know, I was very bad at math, it. And I love it now, in a way because really, the food industry is all about precision and deadlines and multiples, and it's all about the numbers. But I just I just didn't have the confidence as a student. And I was pretty rebellious. And, um, but I fast forward to I became a professional actress and dancer in New York, and lived as a supportive myself as a professional actress. And but I used to listen to the radio. I was a kind of a talk show junkie. And I, one day I heard this position on radio, talking about fitness, and he just finished the New York City Marathon and he played this great music, Tom Waits, and you know, it was just, but he was talking about nutrition. And I now know that that he was really one of the early functional medicine, sort of regenerative medicine, thought leaders, and I was fascinated. I sent him a tape. I wanted to help him produce his radio show, big powerful radio station in New York City. And he interviewed all these opinion leaders, these researchers that have done the original research on vitamin D and even Nobel Prize winners like Julius Axelrod, who won the Nobel Prize for creating Tylenol. He invented Tylenol for the NIH and never got a dime for it. But was just I met all these incredible scientists through my journey with what the man who ended up being my husband because he he, so I sent I tried to get on that radio show to help him produce the show and schedule gas and he did end up my husband at the time my soon to be husband did propose to me on the second date, and we've been married for over 35 years now. So that is, you know, very romantic but it's also been how I got so interested in nutrition. And in health and wellness that led led the kind of laid the foundation. I used to give out recipes. And one I remember one of the recipes was early days of remember the oak raise, we I know them as a second Oh, praise recently, but this was the first one. And I used to give out meal muffin recipes. And everybody encouraged me to bring it to market. So I did that. And that was really my first taste of the food industry was called muffin a day the total health muffin it had all the fiber that you need in one muffin. And I brought it to a couple 1000 grocery stores and but I was making the muffins like literally sweating over the mixing bowl. And, but I learned so much and about the food industry. And it fit me good. You know, just how it works, the mechanics of margin and how you get a price point and how you drive sales and how you just go through the system how how the system makes money, essentially so and i i made a lot of mistakes and vacuumed out a lot of donut cases and did a lot of work. But I I I love it. So fast forward to. Well, you're you you asked me if you would like to ask me another question. And that's how I got in the food business.

Gabriel Flores  7:04  

No, no, keep going. I would love to I you know, I would love to hear kind of how that now transpired into lava and then how that concept was created.

Elizabeth Fisher  7:14  

Okay, so here I have the muffin, I sold that company. And I started working with an organic Bread Company, a flat beautiful flower less organic bread company called Alvarado street bakery. It is in most natural food stores and most grocery stores across the country. And beautiful, beautiful product unique product. So that was the beginning of me seeing how powerful a differentiated item can be. And, and everybody laughed at me when I first presented that product. You know, it's got a five day shelf life and it's really expensive. But we were able to build a tremendous loyal following. And people it's a very intimate thing when somebody finds a food product that makes them feel good when they eat it, but also just makes them feel good about themselves in a way. So um, that was a wonderful journey. And I also built a number of other better for you brands including Pirate's Booty I sold that for the first 25 million and salty snacks is a very high velocity category. Exciting beyond belief to get multiple multiple truckload orders, you know, just big dollar POS all illustrating we have something that people want. And it's an incredible thing, you know, to see a warehouse full of cases that are going somewhere, you know, commerce, and I love it. So and that I still love it. But then I I had a just a, I had a personal diagnosis at 55 of ovarian cancer was picked up just very arbitrarily and I'd never been sick ever. And then I was all of a sudden in a very big system that is with a with a very poor prognosis. And I had, I did have incredible medical care was in New York City and the best of the best, and I survived got better. And then about 18 months later it came back again. And that was when my husband said, we're going to change your diet. There's a lot of good science around cancer as a metabolic disease and not a genetic one. And I had a very complex carbohydrate diet, lots of good carbs, and vegetables and, and plant based, but I was sort of a typical fat phobic female of my generation, very scale focused, very body weight focused. So put the salad dressing on the side. So I avoided fat pretty, pretty carefully. And then. So to be making energy from fat requires about 80% of your calories from fat. It's not just reducing the carbs. So it was a very difficult transition for me to make. And but I thought my life depended on it. So I did it. And I was eating a lot of avocado and coconut, and then macadamia nuts, just tons of macadamia nuts. And I just, I couldn't eat another one. It has a very specific taste. And that's when I found the pili nuts, which I'm showing you is a beautiful heirloom Not that I'd never heard of. And nobody has. But it, it grows in the wild all over Southeast Asia into Australia and Hawaii. And its nutritional composition is similar to butter, fat, only it's from a plant. It's very, very high. Plant fat. And I can talk about that in a minute, because it's the best kind of fat. But it has this neutral, creamy, buttery taste, and it performs like cream fresh. So I could mix it in a mixing bowl, and it would hold a peak. And it it made a spoonable white mouse, which is what we call yogurt. And that was the beginning prototype. Just a little coconut milk and peeling cream, boom. And I'm not going to say that that's what healed me. But certainly the idea of bringing something to revealing this beautiful ingredient that was already perfect. That idea was just so spectacular and splendid that it really did keep me excited about going through my treatment and journey. And I did get better. And I never thought I would and I did. And my two friends encouraged me to bring this to market. And that's how I did it.

Gabriel Flores  13:44  

That's that's quite incredible. I think, one, I have so many questions. Let's start from the beginning, you're talking about, we're gonna kind of go backwards in regards to the content you create, because I do want to kind of get all the way back to how you did scale pirate booty and sell that. But first, I want to talk about this nut. How did you find this nut that you mentioned? I've never heard of it. You know, I feel like I do kind of eat quite an array of different products, but I've never heard of this product. How did you find it? And how did you use? How do you source it?

Elizabeth Fisher  14:22  

Well, it was available on nuts.com

Gabriel Flores  14:25  

I obviously don't do

Elizabeth Fisher  14:27  

it online. You know, I was looking for what not had the highest fat content. And actually almonds are pretty high in carbohydrate. So I mean, they do have fat but they also had carbohydrates. So when you're restricting your carbs that much and they all matter, you know. And I was trying to get it doesn't work unless you get enough fat. So meaning you can't make energy from fat So that's how I found it. And I mean, there's a reason it's not available. It wasn't widely known in the US. You know, we spent two and a half years on covering the supply chain, which meant multiple trips to Southeast Asia, working with growers and contractors and aggregators, and, you know, navigating price and logistics and most importantly, processing, because it really is a raw nut, it's dehydrated, but in order to keep that, so that it preserves all of its nutrient density, and also can be used to make enough butter that goes into the mixing bowl to make the yogurt. There were quite a few steps that we had to develop to bring it here.

Gabriel Flores  16:02  

Yeah, can you kind of maybe, uh, elaborate on how do you get a nut down to yogurt for

Elizabeth Fisher  16:13  

one well, we make it into a butter to just like a peanut butter, only no peanuts. And it goes into a big mixing bowl, you know? 10 times your size. And we add with lava. The second most important ingredient is another unique ingredient, green plantain, which we pick on the farm in Costa Rica, and blanch to stop it from ripening and went up more right the plantain the higher the sugar content is. So we wanted the lowest possible sugar content, they call it the bricks. So we stop it from ripening. And those plantain those whole, that whole plant matter is combined in this mixing bowl. So you've got the pili nut butter, this creamy peanut butter, and green plantain. And then we do add coconut organic coconut cream, and basically mix and that becomes a slurry that gets gets pasteurized briefly to get rid of all the bedbugs. And then we inoculate it with vegan cultures, our unique consortium of vegan probiotics, and they start feasting on the prebiotics that are naturally occurring in the plant matter itself. And that's why the probiotic counts were off the charts when we first come off the line. I mean, just off the charts 200 billion. And I learned about it is a living culture thing because it goes right from there to the grocery store shelf. So it's fresh, like a fresh fruit. But it does live in that cup. These are wonderful, nurturing restorative gut health buddies that are in that cup, that are eating the prebiotics as nourishment and keeping them alive during the life of the product. So we measured on our very last day of cultures and have an average of 50 billion Bucha generally has about two at bottling. And you know, this is one of these subjects, you know, we think of yogurt as being healthy. But it really is almost 90% added sugar. And sugar is a like Agent Orange to the gut microbiome. It just it's, it doesn't help. And that's sad that it's in the culture set with all the other yogurt. But that's that's the way the category is and we're hoping to change them.

Gabriel Flores  19:48  

Now, you mentioned that you had been working, you know, in Southeast Asia in working in Costa Rica. So you're working with a lot of international locations. What are some things that you've kind of learned earned throughout this process, because you mentioned you're working for two years before lava kind of actually going, what did you learn that so much that you maybe was an aha moment that you didn't know about before? That? What are some things that some entrepreneurs can think about when you're thinking internationally, like international trade?

Elizabeth Fisher  20:23  

International trade? Well, we're a very small planet. I know, I learned that, um, I've had so many aha moments, but it was a joyous ride. I had been on a number of brands and had some successes along the way. But nothing like the first two years at lava. And I love to pioneer, you know, be the first. And it's it really is like, the pioneers in the West, and it's Uncharted data territories, it's very inhospitable, they do not want you to trespass. And, you know, they will kill you, if you're just so you know, the shelf space is pretty much owned and paid for. So you've got to slip in through the cracks. However, many, many retailers, you know, they're all trying to read the tea leaves about what is next. What do people want, what we don't need duplication, we already have the top high volume items, what is next. And what we learned from really the best marketing and data Intel, consumer marketing Intel was that authenticity is what consumers most want. Even those that may not know exactly how to read a label, you know, and know what it means for them personally, you know, how many all the macros were so protein crazed, as a as a culture, and it's pretty easy to get protein really, in you know, our diets. And, for me, I didn't want a lot of protein. It you know, I'm sayin boned. With a family history of osteoporosis, too much protein in my diet, leeches calcium, but I do see value in it. I just didn't want to add a bunch of powders and altra processing agents to what was already naturally occurring in the plan. So that that really does seem to be I mean, that was the aha moment. When customers get they see what you see. And they tell you back what you've been struggling to put into words, you know, from the sales and marketing perspective, you're always trying to, you know, thread the needle. And marketing experts say if you can't articulate your message in 30 seconds or less, you don't know what you're selling. And I'm like, Yeah, but when you have a great meal, with people that love you, and that, you know, just everything about it, it's more than just the food. You know, it really is a well, Danny Meyer could have beautifully, the great hospitality expert, and he defined it as it's what's done for you, not done to you. So it's a very emotional feeling where it's your intellect and your senses. That is what that's what affects taste. So, it is in architecture, they call it the golden mean, where you're capturing the perspective and the light and what's already there. You know, so I did I fall in love early with food science, even though I was terrible at math. I loved I had a great chemist that I think he invented vented the soft and chewy cookie dough or something, you know, just it wasn't a clean label anything but it took a lot of technology. It was a toy business, but he was an intriguing teacher. And I was captivated by the the catalyst, tick events of putting things together to make something new. So that that is very much what happens with lava. And this is what great cooking is great culinary, great chefs do this every day. So I am not a great chef. But I know something that resonates as authentic, and makes me feel good. And that's what people tell us over and over and over again, they don't even like yogurt. And many of them don't buy plant based, because it's ultra processed. So this is something standalone. You know, one of the things I answered, No, you really want to answer,

Gabriel Flores  25:59  

you did a great job. In fact, one of the things you mentioned that I think is very important to kind of highlight is the shelf life and the competition of that shelf life. Right, you know, getting your product on the shelf against the crafts and the the yogurts, right, the large corporations, how difficult is it right? You're starting to start out? How difficult has it been for you and lava to get your product out there in front of your consumers? And who would you define as your consumer?

Elizabeth Fisher  26:32  

Oh, it's been incredibly difficult. And I know what I'm doing. I mean, at least I think I know. You know, but we're only as good as the last 10 minutes. You know, I mean, the game is constantly changing. We were We were devastated by COVID. And by you know, trucks just not rolling getting de prioritized for frozen chicken and frozen vegetables and oat milk and and other high demand items. So small brands that were starting off just you know, they suffered and we definitely suffered. But one thing for sure is those brands I most admire, and the products, the branded products that really stand out. Very few of them were overnight successes, they did have many iterations. And I'm hoping that we are going to be one of them. And we're reinventing ourselves now. You know, it's one of their nine lives. I hope it's not nine hope it can be to to live. But it was such a rocket ship ride the first two years and then five months after we launched in Whole Foods we were we did hit the lockdown, which affected shopping behavior dramatically. And also just not enough man hours to load trucks and get the shelves filled and all those workers were definitely frontline and trying to feed the country, you know. So we still but then there's also the capital markets, you know, and it really is a game of Moneyball. We are starting over and there are so many retailers who are trying to bring culinary medicine to the grocery stores. They really the I mean I do believe that food is the root cause of all disease. So if you see what's on the shelf now and most retailers it is ultra processed high refined carbohydrates, you know, truck stationary, you know, 53 foot truckload of Oreos outside of a single store. I'm like how many Oreos can you sell? But we can sell we are selling more than ever. We're selling more Cheez Its than ever and it and we are fatter and more sick than ever. So I can just say that I went to an extraordinary conference the first of its kind from the called the American College of lifestyle medicine. Last week, and lava hosted a breakfast. So we served it on the breakfast buffet but it is a it is a group We have lifestyle medicine, physicians and health care practitioners, many in private practice that really support a plant based diet and lifestyle medicine to treat, prevent, and mitigate disease. These guys are not, you know, anti Pharma. And it's not we're not, you know, I'm a very big supporter of good quality medicine and lucky to have had it, but the health care system is broken. And it is the biggest scourge on climate. And really, you know, our civilization. So and a disease based medical model is flawed. And these brave opinion leaders are out there taking their time away from their practices, learning about food Edison and even new york city hospitals. There are eight New York City the biggest health care system and sit in the country they're approved now for and these are underserved communities speaking hundreds of different languages, like suffering from comorbidities and high rate of dying from these comorbidities in they are being treated with lifestyle medicine as a frontline of defense. I mean, I don't know that that's ever happened before and I was pretty excited to be a part of it.

Gabriel Flores  31:56  

Yeah, now you're kind of speaking my language, you know, health care, you know, cold to very cold. Very medicine was very interesting word that you use. I was like, Oh, that's very interesting. Because one thing we do outside of the podcast, a lot of people know that listen, is I work in health care. And so preventative cardiology, when you think of preventative cardiology, how do you prevent heart attacks? How do you how do you prevent heart disease? You're thinking fish oils, you're thinking, you know, these non medicines, you're thinking actually food if you actually having a fish actually eating the salmon on once a week is going to do so much more benefit than having 100 Fish Oils a week, right? 100 fish oil pills, right, just the food that you consume. In fact, one of the things somebody I think you should actually reach out to Dr. Sergio Fazio, he's a certified lipid technologists and endocrinologist. I'll send you some information after the show. But I used to work with

Elizabeth Fisher  32:52  

oh, that I would love that. So he's he's the product.

Gabriel Flores  32:56  

Yes, please. Because he's great. Because what he primarily focused, he's a preventative cardiologist, right. So he's really focusing on how to prevent all these heart disease and Tracy Stephens not actually connected with her to she's a dietician. But the goal really what we're focusing on one thing I'm really love to hear that other healthcare systems are doing this is how do we engage the patient in the kitchen? Right, we were reading engage them in their lifestyle in regards to exercising, we talked about exercise, we talked about, you know, medicines that she could take, but now do we need to take it a step further and help them in the kitchen. So what OHSU had been doing in the past, is we'd actually take the patients to a local grocery store. And we'd actually have our own cardiologists, cook meals for the patients in front of the patients that teach them how to cook these meals that talk about why they're using these certain ingredients. And then after they were done doing that, they would give them coupons because again, this was done at a local grocery store. So that gives them coupons for the items they use during that cooking segment, and say, hey, here are the items in the store right now here coupons for you to purchase it if you want to cook this meal at home for your family as well. You know, and we we actually create a cookbook for this and it's very important, you know, healthcare is important. Healthcare is in shambles right now. We have difficulty because our our system is really broken. We don't have enough staff to come out. We're not having enough babies to have enough staff. Right? When you're thinking about the baby boomers are aging, they're going to be the next kind of generation that needs help and support. Well, millennials is just as big as the baby boomers, but after that Gen X generation is much smaller. Right? And these are the people that are gonna be taking care of us tomorrow. And so, health care, you know, the medicine or the the food piece and healthcare is very, very interesting. Because it's just, it has a lot of pieces to it, right? It's going to help us healthcare, it's gonna help our environment. It's gonna To help us financially, right, the economics behind good food, there's a lot to it. Now, one of the things you also mentioned is, you've been doing a lot of these businesses kind of within the health in the food industry kind of pretty, pretty dominantly. Why is it so important you feel that we should, because you kind of you kind of alluded to it, but I really want you to have an opportunity to highlight it. Why is it so important for you to be focusing on these type of food ingredients that are really good for the environment and good for the nature and good for our bodies?

Elizabeth Fisher  35:37  

Well

I mean, this is where you mentioned millennials. I mean, they're, in some ways, they're very thrifty demographic, but they're also will go to great lengths to have their dollars, go to where they care. And so they are mission based investors, if you will. So, you know, we certainly resonate with that demographic, because the peeling not is not a is a regenerative crop. The name lava came from the soil in which the peeling not grows, which is volcanic soil. So it's this very nutrient rich, and I mentioned protein before because there is more to nutrition than protein. We're just so and that is we inherited this from the meat industry. I'm, you know, and I hate to say it, but you know, it, it. It's not just, we were all of our protein eyes, and I'm not gonna win that battle. I can't, you know, I'm not even going to take that on. I'm just trying to hit the the bliss point, which is food that is made from whole food, that hasn't been messed with, and is exactly as close to its origin as possible, combined to make something that actually is convenient and tastes great. People buy us because they love the taste. So it kind of goes back to that hospitality thing. You know, everybody's tastes are different. And if a celebrity tells you that something tastes good, it actually affects how you experience something, you know, we are such a brain, you know, easily influenced creatures, you know, but when it comes to behavior and like cooking, you know, I just think like with bottled water on the people can't they can't fill a bottle with water. No, actually they can. So I work with the guys that founded SmartWater, you know, and it's a very, very big, wonderful business. So I'm hoping that the yogurt industry, which really, I'm sure there's there's plenty of items out there that are better than others. But for the most part it has, it's a devalued category that has been cheapened. And has a health halo of gut health of being cultured, but has all this added sugar. So because sugar and water are every processors favorite two ingredients. And why is that? Well, let's see. costs. So you know, it's not it's the entire food industry is built on a foundation of have it cost as little as possible and sell it for as much as possible. So, I mean, there certainly are exceptions. But we think that you know, health and wellness is worth the price. So we're going to take that we'll take that to the market and see what the market has to say. We are just ready to do a price adjustment on lava. And we were trying to compete, you know, the race to the bottom they call it in in yogurt. So we are will be interesting. Yeah. Where did you have

Gabriel Flores  39:54  

that was gonna say where do you see lava kind of in the next five or 10 years?

Elizabeth Fisher  40:00  

I do think it's a standalone product that is, I know a lot of nutrition coaches, this is lifestyle coaches, this is you know, part of their prescription. There are more and more home delivery systems for fresh food that are coming through gastroenterologist or for and also for kids. You know, there's a lot of explore just incredible breakthrough work around the human Michael microbiome and the brain gut connection, and the whole area of gut health is going to become more and more talked about. But I mean, a lot of athletes are pretty sophisticated about the difference, it makes their to have a bio diverse diet. That means lots of diversity, not just pea protein and sunflower oil with an extra helping of molto dextran and refined wheat flour. You know, I mean, these are the ingredients that make up most of the center store of the grocery industry, they sit in a warehouse, upwards of a year, and that's what's filled the pipeline during the past two and a half years, you know, many of these items were fading away and becoming irrelevant before the pandemic, and they are now just rolling in it, you know, soups and things that I call them the bottles and cans, you know, but fresh food took a hit just like restaurants and great, you know, beautiful restaurant businesses just fun. They'll be back. Yeah, they're all coming up there, you know, you can't keep down. My grandfather, who I guess was my mentor, he died at 91 bench pressing just as an example of way to go. Um, but he, and he was a writer. And he told me that, and this I do think is the sign of an entrepreneur is I never knew I was an entrepreneur, but I actually think I am is to crawl out of a drain pipe wearing a tuxedo. So that was that was that was my group I had already like, you know, now that

Gabriel Flores  42:53  

love it. Now, what would you say? Because you've been doing this for some time, you know, you mentioned that you've helped scale other businesses, including pirate booty, what kind of things have you learned in the past that you feel were important to make lava successful today?

Elizabeth Fisher  43:12  

Well, it takes it takes great operation. So you can have exquisite brand positioning and marketing but you really do need to be able to make it the same every time. And that consistency which when you're dealing with a living product, and which responds to changes in the seasons and changes in the you know the plant temperature and they're, you know it you need somebody who you need, you need talent on the operation side. That and it you have to have a stone that you have to have the right people they've got to really have a stomach for it, which is long, thankless hours, watching the paint dry. You know, until it's until it's right and you understand why it's right. And then do it again. And then do it again. Then do it again. And I'm it takes it takes time to make a scalable commercial business. And even the big brands that I admire and that are out there, they still struggle with consistency. You know, there's a shift change and you know, somebody had a baby and they forgot to train them on that you know, whatever it is that the tiny has just like medicine in a way it's these are delicately calibrated pieces of equipment that you Need to make it you know, safe and hold, hold shelf life and be what you promise it to be. And that's the rules of the game. No talent be surrounded by talent. And if they can share your vision of the better. It's very hard to do.

Gabriel Flores  45:27  

Yeah, I bet. Now for the folks at home if they're interested in finding lava, where are you at in the stores? Are you currently in stores? Are you online? Where can we find your product?

Elizabeth Fisher  45:38  

Well, we have lost quite a bit of distribution over the past six months, but happy to say we are in the top 120 food stores. Very proud partner there. We are available primarily in the northeast and in the in California. So we are moving back into the pack Northwest have a lot of demand in the Portland. We're Co Op, we're coming, we'll

Gabriel Flores  46:10  

bring it back. Because I have a Trader Joe's around the street, I'm ready to go walk and grab,

Elizabeth Fisher  46:15  

we're probably not going to be a Trader Joe's but I would love it, you can you can give him my number. Well,

Gabriel Flores  46:21  

I got you.

Elizabeth Fisher  46:24  

You know, they built the wrong brand. So they're not really part. You know, they have a different business model. But nobody does logistics better than in Trader Joe's. So you know, I mean, I would love to I'd love to be able to bring love there. But someday, white label,

Gabriel Flores  46:43  

get over there.

Elizabeth Fisher  46:48  

I mean, our real, our goal is to be able to get it to people who are very specific about their diet as an adjunct to feel feeling good. They know how to feel good, either they didn't feel good, and now they do and they want to keep it that way. And if you've ever been sick and gotten better, you know that there's nothing better, you know, then feeling great all the time. So, like, so those kinds of medical referrals that will definitely, you know, building that tribe of thoughtful practitioners and caregivers, dieticians, functional medicine, pas, I mean, there are 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of them that have gotten off the grid to approach wellness very differently, and it is food based health care.

Gabriel Flores  47:56  

I agree. I completely agree. I see that transition happening kind of daily. In the health care world, where we're we're focusing more on prevention, right? We want to get beyond treatment. We don't want to treat people anymore. We want to prevent, right, we want to start preventing things. Now. Elizabeth, thank you first and foremost, so much. Now folks at home are interested in learning more about lava. Is there a website that they can visit?

Elizabeth Fisher  48:23  

Yes, is Hello at love lava. And remember, it's two V's in each. So we've got four V's, four V's E for vegan V for victory. So l a b VALOVBALAVVA. So love has TVs and lava TVs so hello lava you can get I will I see those emails. So I'd love to hear from anybody. And, you know, put your money where your mouth is you got to support brands that are doing the hard work businesses that are doing the hard work and doing things a little differently and doing things better. Yep. And I agree,

Gabriel Flores  49:19  

I think the millennial generation and Gen X and I think they're focused on companies that really do align with their own core values. And so I think that's that's a big, big plus. Elizabeth, thank you so very much for joining me on the show and those forums for those listening again. This information lava information will be on the newsletter The week before it airs, the week it airs and the week after it airs. You can also find lots of information on the website at the day this episode airs so if you if you're unfamiliar with the actual if you cannot remember the actual two V's go ahead and check out the newsletter check out the website the shades of e.com We'll have all this information And you can also follow me on all the social channels at the shades of e.com Elizabeth any last words for those listening at home

Elizabeth Fisher  50:10  

it's just nobody's got an edge on you baby. Just keep it. Keep it coming.

Gabriel Flores  50:17  

I love it. I love it. All right ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to subscribe to the newsletter and don't forget to follow me on the social at the shades of E Thank you and have a great night